SB 3.24.16, Mayapur Dham, 2009-03-01
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We are reading from Srimad Bhagavatam, Third Canto, Chapter 24 entitled ‘The Renunciation of Kardama Muni, text 16. Where (glitch) or Kapiladeva or all the various Avatars of the Supreme Personality of Godhead appear in the original internal energy. avajananti mam mudha, manusim tanum asritam. Those who think that Krsna has taken a human form, they are under the influence of the illusional energy and they are mudhah’s, they are less intelligent. Asses.
Krsna is always the Supreme Lord, and when Krsna appears in a human form, it is... His unlimited mercy. Krsna somehow or other appears in His original human form, and in that form Krsna is most close to us. Srila Prabhupada was giving a description of the second world war and how during that time his wife during that time had cooked his favorite prep, namely kachoris, and he was taking them and the siren went off, for the bomb alarms of the second world war, and everybody was supposed to go in the shelter. ‘Well, how can i just leave these kachoris?’ I guess it wasn’t just the desire to enjoy the kachoris, but it was Maha prasadam. So how could it be disrespected? Also that element must be there. And Srila Prabhupada, Abhay, did not go to the bombshelter but stayed and continued to take his kachoris, and he saw the bombs. He saw how the bombs were falling from the sky and blowing up various buildings and so on. So he saw how the bombs were blowing up various buildings and it made a deep impression on him, because over the years it sometimes would come back, some examples in relation to the bombs. And Prabhupada was saying, ‘These bombs that were exploding and so destructive, that was also Krsna.’ That was also Krsna, but that was Krsna’s universal form. He compared it to the universal form, which is described in the Eleventh Chapter of the Bhagavad-gita, where Arjuna saw all the heroes of the battlefield dissapearing into the unlimited mouths of this enormous universal form. So and Prabhupada talking about this bombing in Calcutta, yes this is also the universal form, this is also a feature of Krsna, but it is not a lovable feature of Krsna. It is not the lovable form of Krsna. And that is the situation.
When we are dealing with the enormous, unlimited, great universal form, how can we relate to it? It is too big. Just like, an example would be, how could we have a relationship with an ant? Imagine we would have a pet ant. It would be difficult. Which one is it, i’m not sure. We try to pick him up, we might break his leg. Our little favorite ant. Too small, too small to have a real relationship. So when the Supreme Lord is unlimitedly great, in the all pervasive universal form, how can we relate to that form of the Lord? Very difficult. We are simply overcome by fear, by a sense of awe, by reverence, and we feel.. remote.
But when Krsna in His unlimited wisdom, in His unlimited kindness, and in His unlimited insight, the Supreme Lord has a human form. A form which is very close to our form, and which makes Him unlimitedly accessible. So much accessible. And when the Lord descends in this world, then His pastimes are of such a nature that they are very human. And thus, the Lord in His activities brings out all the human sentiments. When little Krsna starts to carry the shoes of His father on His head, Nanda Maharaja’s heart melts completely. So small and He is carrying those shoes on His head. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is cute, right? Cute is a word, it is somewhat belittling, right? It is a word which is sort of befitting for a helpless person. A small helpless child. But although Krsna was very small, although He even took the form of a baby, He was not helpless, although Putana mistakenly thought so, and approached Him with poison on the breast and ready to poison the child, because that was here favorite activity. And somehow or other, when Putana glanced upon the child, just before she was about to give it the breast, just then, she thought, ‘This child is so powerful, He could destroy the entire universe.’ Correct, she was right. For a little moment, the veil of illusion which covered her consciousness, was lifted, but then, due to her false ego, she herself pulled that veil of illusion back down, and said, ‘No, no, rubbish, He is just a child, i will kill Him now.’ Right? In stead of accepting, yes? No. She tried. And then she experienced how Krsna had no problem taking care of that poison, and how He drank the poison, was not affected by it, because He was the Supreme Lord. But, not only is the Supreme Lord all-powerful, the Supreme Lord is also all-merciful. And thus He also accepted her offering of milk and actually gave that more importance, although He first punished Putana a little bit.
In the commentary of Visvanath Chakravarti Thakur that pastime of Putana is very nicely described. There it is described how Krsna, when He started He sucked the poison, then He sucked the milk, and then He also sucked the life air. And that was very painful to Putana. And at the same time Krsna was holding on to the breast of Putana and squeezing very hard. So it was so painful, she was trying to pull the child of her breast, but she couldn’t. And He was holding on, and the pain was excutiating, so she tried to run away, but Krsna kept on hanging. And as she was running, she couldn’t maintain that false illusory form of a beautiful lady and returned to her original rakshasa form, which was twenty kilometers long. And it’s said she ran out of the house, not breaking Nanda Maharaja’s house, and she ran, and Krsna kept hanging and squeezed very hard. And then, just on the edge of Vrindavan, she left her body, and the body fell over and crashed to the ground in Kamsa’s favorite fruit orchard, crashing all the trees (chuckles). I like this, it’s very nice, the way Putana became killed, and then Krsna accepted her as a nurse in the spiritual world, because she offered the milk. So, He gave her an eternal position as one of His mothers, because Krsna has so many mothers. And that is the Supreme Lord. Kind, way beyond what we, the living beings, deserve.
Extending Himself, not only, ye yatha mam prapadyante, tams tathaiva bhajamy aham, or that He is rewarding us according to our surrender. Not only that, He goes far beyond. And that makes Him the amazing Supreme Lord that captures our hearts. That inconceivable generosity, that kindness that we find in the Supreme Lord, in all His incarnations. In all the incarnations the Lord is displaying this kindness of being kind beyond what the living beings deserve. So how can we not melt, in front of such a Lord? How can we not melt, in front of that Supreme Lord who is just so kind, and who is mixing His humanlike activities with supernatural activities in such a way that when you start to think, ‘He is an ordinary personality,’ He lifts a hill, or, just when you think, ‘He’s finished,’ and Kaliya is strangling Krsna and it looks like it’s over, and everyone is convinced, this is the end, mother Yasoda has to be held back. And then, just then, He frees Himself, dances on the hood of that snake.
So in this way He interchanges His human activities with His transcendental activities as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And that never fails to surprise the devotee, thus never is there a moment that Krsna becomes predictable. Everyone else becomes very predictable, after a while, yeah, you know somebody, you know their nature, you know their strength, you know their weaknesses, you know what you can expect. And yes, they do it again, and again, and it’s sort of, within character. Within character. Not surprising, yes? Yes, i knew he had it in him. And this type of mood we develop in relation to anyone and everyone. But Krsna, Krsna again and again, eternally, actually astounds his devotees, astounds His devotees completely. And that is why the pastimes of Krsna are never boring. That is amazing.
Before i was a devotee, somehow or other i got a Krsna book, also a Bhagavad-gita. The Bhagavad-gita i liked a lot, but the Krsna book i couldn’t relate to it, because i thought there is no plot in the book, you know. Usually i was used to the kind of books where you don’t know who is gonna win and then you can no longer tolerate it and then you have to look on the last page, you know, to relieve the tension that is built up. I was reading such kind of books. And then in the Krsna book Krsna would come, some demon would appear, and 1,2,3 finished. Already dead, (chuckles) you know, too quick, i was thinking. there is no plot in this book. It didn’t intrigue me. And then, as i found out more about it, i found out that Krsna was performing the same pastimes again and again. And i thought, how is this possible? The same pastimes again and again. ‘Doesn’t it get boring?’ my mind was thinking, and i was looking for something new.
So when i first came to the temple, the devotees they let me in and the told me ‘sit down,’ and they gave me a Back to Godhead to read. And i said, ‘But i already read that.’ ‘That doesn’t matter, a devotee reads the same story again and again.’ So i said, ‘well,’ that was the first order. So i had just decided i am going to surrender now, so whatever they say i will do. So they told me to read the magazine and i started to read the story. And i read the story, and they kept me waiting for quite some time, so i kept on reading the same story again and again. And in fact, after one hour the devotee who had given me the instruction came, and i was sort of ‘I’m here’ and he went like ‘That’s allright, stay there.’ And i sat there until the evening had come. I had come in the morning, and i sat till the evening, reading the same story over and over and over. And i got a lot of realisations. I never read a story so in depth as on that day, actually. And i realised actually that my whole approach to reading the Krsna book had been looking for something new, looking for something exiting, but now i was finding a different type of reading, i was going in depth. I was looking at the same pastimes over and over, but finding more intricate details and understanding how there was actually much more to it than i ever thought. And in this way, and that was just by me, reading on my own. What to speak of hearing from advanced and realised Vaisnavas.
So in this way gradually we are beginning to appreciate Krsna. Little by little. In the beginning we cannot even see Krsna. Before Krsna consciousness i checked out different things, and one week i would be with the Tibetan Buddhists, and another week i would be with some Yogis somewhere, and then i would go for a program with the Sufis, and it all was spiritual, and it all seemed different aspects of the same. It didn’t sort of cross my mind for a moment that i was here encountering different filosofies that had totally opposite views and huge gaps between them and that they were universes apart. Now i understand that they were universes apart. Now i can see that these Sufis and Buddhists were far apart, but, then i couldn’t see. I couldn’t see. I thought it was sort of all the same.
But gradually, in the beginning we cannot understand. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, it doesn’t make sense. How can God be a person? It doesn’t compute. Thus, impersonal seems natural. But only gradually. Hiranmayena patrena, satyasyapihitam mukham, tat tvam pusann. Then gradually, we begin to appreciate that there is a Supreme Person behind everything. And gradually we begin to understand that this impersonalism can never be complete. How is it possible that it could ever be complete? The impersonal understanding. Yes, there may be relief of suffering. Yes, when there is no more variety, and there is only Brahman, if this Jagad is Nitya, and Brahma Satya, if this universe is false, then... we don’t have to worry about it. What a relief. Then we are free from all these entanglements, all these problems. Very good. In this way impersonalism offers us a great benefit. Freedom from all the entanglement. We can laugh at anything that happens in this world. It’s just insignificant. If one has realised brahman, then it’s all meaningless. So, that’s quite something. But that’s it. That’s it. There is no eternal activity. There is no eternal taste. There is no... there is only relief from material suffering. That’s all. That is very poor, if we compare that to the ever increasing ocean of rasa, that is displayed within the pastimes of Krsna, which is being churned more and more and more, eternally. Eternally. Eternally increasing, the happiness, the ananda, the bliss. neverending, so that is amazing.
But we are, we were blinded. Maybe attracted by impersonalism. It was intriguing for me. When i came involved with Krsna consciousness, and i learned Srila Prabhupada’s pranam mantra’s, that it was Namaste Sarasvati devi, Gauravani Precarine, Nirvisesa Sunyavadi, Pascyata desa. The western countries being delivered from impersonalism, so that was interesting because i had spent plenty of time in India, and i had encountered plenty of people who had shown me their altar and had every possible deity on there. An Indian altar resembles an Indian train. It’s very full. It’s too full. Just like the train, it’s too full, the altar also, it’s too full, everyone is on there. Even if they don’t fit, somehow or other, put them on. Why? Because you never know. There may be some blessings. Put. Yes. Put it. And you never know who is God. Just in case. It seems that impersonalism was so widely spread here. But then, over the years i began to see, ‘No, it is not.’ Although there may be an inclination towards impersonalism in India, still, there is also the tendency to worship superiors, and personalities. To worship the demigods, at least, and if not the Supreme Lord. There is a concept of being dependent upon a personality. To actually bow down before another person. That is engrained within the Indian tradition so much so, that actually this tendency is a personal tendency. An element of personalism. To worship lotusfeet, and so on. To worship a a superior. In the west, that concept is not there. It is just gone. It dissapeared. Maybe once Christianity had that, but as modern science came up all the personal aspects of Christianity is just mythological. And impersonalism became deeply rooted there. And then those who were anyway not so interested or didn’t have much faith in religion. Impersonalism became so deeply rooted that we could not imagine that things depend on persons. No persons. Nothing. Everything just automatic. By laws, in a machine, in the universe, and the different powers, and forces, and vectors, which just work automatically through magnetic fields and other various forces, and so on. Man in the machine. A mechanistic worldview. That’s where we come from. That’s the west.
And as i was sitting on western trains after having been in India for a long time, in the european winter, and i saw, it was dark at 4 o’clock, and people riding on that train wouldn’t even look at eachother, what to speak of talk to eachother. In India, people are always making lots of noise. Noise, talking, everywhere. But sitting on a train, thousands of people sitting on a train, not speaking a word, and looking at eachother in the reflections in the window. Is that impersonalism? It sure looks like impersonalism! So gradually i began to see how deeply we were ourselves affected by impersonalism. And gradually, it began to dawn upon me a little bit when Srila Prabhupada and the Acarya’s are smashing the Mayavadi’s, right, that, who are those Mayavadi’s? Gradually i began to realise; we are the Mayavadi’s. Right? Or, the Mayavadi in us. It’s nowadays very fashionable to speak about your inner child, and things like that. And maybe we could speak about inner Mayavadi. The little Mayavadi that is still within our heart, in spite of everything. The fact that we have not truly become servants. The fact that we have not become attentive. Servant means attentive.
In Nectar of Devotion the quality of Dasyam is described, and there it is described that there is a general mood of service, servitorship, Dasyam, and then it describes there is another particular aspect which is the mood of the personal attendant. So a personal attendant is a better servant. Because the personal attendant is really... the general mood is like, well, how can i serve Krsna, what shall i offer to Him, what can i offer? Well, patram puspam phalam toyam, and so anything that’s within the range of acceptable, let me offer. But personal attendant means, ‘No, what is the need of Krsna, now? And it changes from time to time. You don’t offer Him the same in the morning as at noon. And in the evening there is another thing. At night, some, something is offered so He’ll make it through the night. Early morning, quickly some sweet, He must be low on energy now. Something we must give Him. So a very personal attendant is actually our mood. Thus we must become, a personal servant, not only of Krsna, but of the Vaisnavas, and in particular of a Vaisnava. We must become the personal servant of our spiritual master. Not serve the way we wanna serve, ‘I wanna do this and this, but can You please bless it?’ Yes, bless bless, allright, but that is cheap. That is cheap. There will be blessings, but greater blessings will be attained, when we are becoming attentive, attentive to the need, the need of our master. Whatever He requires. Whatever He requires. So, that is a very difficult position to take for one who is proud. Because pride, pride means a personal agenda. Pride means we want things for ourselves. And such a servant, such a person who is a personal attendant, can have no claim for himself. No claim. Simply a few leftovers on the side, maybe, just to, for the minimal maintenance, but what more beyond?
It was on that footing that Srila Prabhupada started this movement. This movement started by his inspiration as a very powerful, a very transcendental preaching movement. With not much consideration for personal needs. They were kept quite minimal. And preaching was really the main meditation, and thus Prabhupada didn’t make much distinction between those in more renounced orders of life, like brahmacarya and so on, and grihasta, it’s almost the same, almost the same. Now it doesn’t look so much all the same anymore. Now it looks more different, because we came down. Maybe. I mean i shouldn’t speak so strong. Maybe we came down from the, because in Prabhupada’s presence we were uplifted to do things that were beyong ones limitation. Beyond ones personal limitation, somehow or other, devotees in his presence did things they could have never done alone, and were inspired to live on a level of sacrifice which didn’t come gradual. Vedic culture is the gradual culture. It is the culture of Dharma. Dharma means prescribed religious duty. It has everything to do with training. And one is trained, again and again. This is your prescribed duty. It is drilled within people. This is your prescribed duty. Act according to prescribed duty. Don’t follow your impulses, prescribed duty, prescribed duty, prescribed duty. And then gradually increase to surrender.
But this movement is completely different. This movement is the movement which immediately asks for surrender. It is not gradual, it is a huge change. For me, it says in Bhagavad-gita that night turns into day, and that was exactly my experience, because i used to go to bed at 4:00 AM and then i had to get up at 4. So, it was a huge change, from one day to the next. And you can fill in the rest, the blanks, as to the other differences that were there, between my life before and my current life, or the life of devotional service. So, bottomline, the bottomline is that such a change, we can not make on the strength of Dharma, because we don’t have a history of Dharma. We don’t have a training of Dharma, and therefore it’s very difficult for us to be Dharmic. We are weak, when it comes to Dharma. We needed, we needed, the strength must come from inspiration. The strength must come from taste. Therefore especially in the Sankirtan movement our strength is not so much Dharma, our strength is higher taste. We must look for it, everywhere. We can’t wait for it to come, we must find it. Those who are eager to serve, they have the secret: service attitude, that is the key. That is actually what makes the difference between struggling in spiritual life, and sort of beginning to taste an inspiration, service attitude. That’s where somehow or other we go through the barrier. So we pray. Krsna, Krsna is most wonderful. We must learn to appreciate how amazing Krsna is.
Krsna is Bhagavan. One meaning of Bhagavan, i read the other day, it said He is Bhajanya Guna Visista. Bha is Bhajaniya, Ga, Guna, and Va, Visista. Bhajaniya Guna Visista. He who’s qualities are irrestistible, one has to worship Him. One has to serve Him. That is Krsna. Sometimes we get so busy in our lives that we just, even living in the temple, we live in the temple and we get so busy that we have no time for Krsna. So let us make some time for Krsna. And let us make some time especially for directly glorifying Krsna, directly hearing about Krsna, and remembering Krsna. These three things, sravanam, kirtanam and smaranam, these three, if they remain strong within our life, then we can find the motivation and remembrance to try and develop our service attitude. This is the key to succes in spiritual life and developing our relationship with Krsna. Then, then we can leave the material energy. Then we can become free from material desire. Then we can remember Krsna at the end of our life. And then we can go back to Godhead this lifetime, and that’s all we want. And it doesn’t matter which ashram we are in, but in every position everyone has the same mission: to go back to Godhead. It really doesn’t matter what our position is. Somehow or other, let us take advantage of this movement, this lifetime, and go back to Godhead. Thank you very much. Srila Prabhupada ki Jay.
Thank you for your patience, it’s easier to speak then to listen. We can speak for hours, but listening for hours is tough. So thanks for your patience. Any questions, any comments?
Q: I just have a question, because of the nature of the purport, about how Krsna’s body is never material. When He takes birth, it’s not normal birth, how He appears in the world. So i had a devotee yesterday come to me, and said they went up to Ekacakra, and they visited Nityananda’s appearence place. And they said in that village they have a kund where Nityananda umbilical cord was put, or placed, and therefore it’s considered like a sacred kund in that village. So he said to me, ‘How could Nityananda have an imbilical cord?’ So i just wanna know your comment on that.
A: Well, first of all, i don’t know if it’s true or not, that i don’t know, if it is confirmed anywhere by an Acarya or in a scripture that this kund is really there containing that imbilical cord. But, how could Lord Nityananda not have an imbilical cord? Are you saying that you want to limit Lord Nityananda? So offcourse He has, He has everything, He can have all these things. But in His case, it is part of the illusory energy, just as in His Mosalya (?) lila Krsna is leaving a material body behind, and then ascends in His chariot along with Daruka to the spiritual sky, in the same way, Lord Nityananda appears in this world but can leave some sort of semblance of a birth for those who want to believe that He took a birth. But we understand the transcendental purport by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada. So for us it’s easy, yes? It’s easy because once you have the mercy of a transcendental person, then all these questions become super easy. Offcourse, Nityananda is transcendental, He appeared in this world. So, if He left an imbilical cord, it’s just an arrangement to bewilder, it’s part of His playful nature, and to bewilder a few atheists on the way as well. So multipurpose, the Lord is daksa, multipurpose. So, for the devotees it’s fun, for the atheists it’s confirmation, that He is material. Like that, multipurpose. That’s all. I think we need not worry about such apparent contradictions. Personally i feel no confusion when i think of things like that.
Q: Maharaja, when did you realise that the impersonal filosophy was inferior to the personal, and what were the circumstances at the time of that realisaton?
A: Okay, i had joined the Krishna Balaram temple in Vrindavan, but i wasn’t really sure then, what i joined. I went, i escaped after a few days, and i was in the city of Benares, and a sadhu came with a long beard, and he chanted Hare Krsna. He came out of nowhere. Usually these sadhu’s they come and they say, ‘What is your country, what is your name?’ This one didn’t say anything, he sat down next to me with an ekatar and just sang Hare Krsna. So i was very shocked. Because, i thougth that Krsna was after me. (chuckles) I had a sort of distinct feeling that there was a person interfering with things. And then i stayed there and then the next morning there was a Harinam party, chanting Hare Krsna in the street. So, i got very worried and i thought, ‘Where do i go now, to escape from Krsna?’ So i decided, let me go to the Tibetan Buddhists. And there probably i have the best chance. And i was there, and i sit there, high in the Himalayas, at *** (sorry, can’t understand what location Maharaj says here)
And they have all these prayer mills, which are cilindrical forms sitting on axes, and they spin them around, one circle is a prayer. Huge ones, whole batteries of them, and they were in the centre of town, a whole bunch, and they walk around in circles, and they keep on pushing these mills. So, i was sitting there, and this lama was walking around, and i was a little interested in him, and i wanted to talk to him. And he didn’t speak a word, nothing. So i greeted him, i walked past, no reaction. Maybe he’s deaf? So the next time i spoke more loud, when he came around. Still, he didn’t recognize me, and he walked past. So that, i thought, was very awkward. And then, i still had the Bhagavad-gita, so i read the Bhagavad-gita, and then i read about the difference between impersonalists and devotees. And then i realised, this man is an impersonalist. He’s thinking that i’m illusion, to him i’m just not even existing, and i just completely, completely rejected that impersonalism right then and there, and went down the mountain, back to the temple. Offcourse, i escaped again later on, but that’s another story. But Krsna brought me back, again and again, that’s His kindness. So there’s no doubt that Krsna is a person, and that Krsna makes personal arrangements in our life, all the time, to help us, to protect us from maya, to pull us out of maya, to pull us out of the material world, to keep us in this movement. Krsna is with us, every step of the way. There is no doubt about it. Okay? Okay, one last question, it’s getting late.
Q: Hare Krsna Maharaj, my question is about the impersonalism versus the personal form, again, and my question is, isn’t having this impersonal idea of God one stage before we reach the platform of personal?
A: Well, isn’t it a stage before we reach the personal. Everything starts in an eternal relationship with Krsna, that is where it began. We were in an eternal relationship with Krsna, but then somehow or other, due to our smallness, and due to Krsna’s unlimited energies we became bewildered and we fell from that original position. And the result is that we became covered by the materiaal energy, and now we’re on the way back. Do we have to go through the stage of impersonalism? Not necessarily so, it depends, if we get the mercy of a Vaisnava, then it’s not required, than we can become devotees straight away. So it is not required, it depends on the mercy of a Vaisnava. Thus, let us look for the mercy of the Vaisnava’s, so that if there is some remnant of an impersonalist within us, that we get rid of him. Now, once and for all, and that we make it cured of this disease, and that the symptoms may not reccur. Hare Krsna, thank you very much. Srila Prabhupada ki Jay!